Eccentric Flower talk:201002/Dialogue With a Spammer
From Eccentric Flower
Comments on Eccentric Flower:201002/Dialogue With a Spammer
I dispute the proposition that the vast majority of people on Twitter are in marketing. And if they are, then they should be thrown off. It's a social tool, not a marketing tool, and I think you've had a foot in that world so long that the lines have begun to blur for you, which is exactly the sort of insidious thought that leads to our world being a worse and more annoying place.
There's plenty of marketing I approve of. Targeted sales are always fine. You want to go pitch a product to someone who you can tell in advance has some reason to be interested in that product, great. B2B sales make the world go 'round. But when you are firing out marketing pitches scattershot to the general public to see who bites, you have officially become a nuisance. If you ever did that, we would have a hell of a loud argument - not that you ever would.
If people RT things to me, they RT them because they believe that those things are of interest to me or their general circle of friends. That's fine. It's when some idiot comes in who knows nothing about me and says, "Hmm, I think I'll try to pitch some stuff to this dude," that I get mad.
In summation: Word of mouth = good. Cold calls = bad.
-- 20:58, 8 February 2010 (GMT)
Just under two years ago I got a call from a recruiter. The recruiter started the call with "Before you hang up on me, hear me out. I know you just bought a house in the Sonoma wine country. I know you're pretty comfortable working for yourself. I know ..." and gave a few other details, and then said "but my boss said I had to call you anyway."
I heard him out because he'd obviously put a little effort into figuring out what I might be interested in before he took up my time. We both decided that the position wasn't a fit for me, but the fact that he'd invested enough in me before he called to be able to give the pros and cons as I'd have given them meant that I thought he was worth listening to.
Which I think is what you're asking for when you say "I do not want to be told about new products. (By marketers. I am reasonably tolerant of being told about them by my friends.)". I'm actually just fine with being told about new products by marketers, but those marketers have better damned well either be supporting a project I find worthwhile (ie: advertising, be it web site or real world), or have put enough energy into finding out about me that they can get past my very short "before you hang up on me..." threshold.
And it's not like I make it hard to find me. I put a lot of personal information out there on the net and other places to make sure that people who want to sell something strictly to me can know enough about me that if they're going to make a tailored pitch I know about it right at the beginning of the conversation.
One example of the less tailored marketing done right is http://twitter.com/Rockler . Actual dialog with customers, a "deal of the day" that tempts me more often than it should, and showcasing good woodworking.
Follow and interact with @Rockler and it's not exactly like that persona becomes a friend, but it becomes obvious that whoever's running that portion of their advertising is interested in building a relationship with their customers. Even though nothing in their web order form feels particularly personal, the @Rockler persona makes me feel like I'm shopping at a store where I'm seeing the same salesperson every time I go in, and they remember just enough about me to say "did you finish those shelves for the train?" or what-have-you.
As interesting, they're also filling a niche formerly filled by magazines: They're turning me on to articles by other woodworkers describing techniques or works that I may be interested in. Used to be the way they got their message to me was to advertise in those magazines, now it's the other way around.
As I've said before, I'll happily give up my medical records if First USA will agree to not contact me with a credit card offer until after I've had a lobotomy, but really it's a matter of wanting to not be exposed to any advertising until that moment when I see the ad for the product which I didn't know I needed.
And since my attention is going to become more and more expensive to get, hopefully marketers will be investing in figuring out what those products are and when they need to be pitched to me, rather than just being scattershot.
I guess when you get that personal recommendation from a friend, you have a rough idea that the friend has a commitment to keeping a relationship with you that's stronger than selling a single product to you, and that they've seen you have a specific need.
That's the relationship I want with vendors.
-- 21:31, 8 February 2010 (GMT)
I'm actually just fine with being told about new products by marketers, but those marketers have better damned well either be supporting a project I find worthwhile (ie: advertising, be it web site or real world), or have put enough energy into finding out about me that they can get past my very short "before you hang up on me..." threshold.
This is an accurate depiction of what I was trying to get at. Yes.
-- 21:38, 8 February 2010 (GMT)
Up until about two weeks ago, I would have agreed wholeheartedly. And then . . . .
Clare doesn't like my couch because it's too deep and hard for her to stand up from. My easy chair is vintage 1991, and the fabric is falling off, leaving foam and stuff for the baby to eat. So for months we've been saying to each other, "We should get some new furniture."
So I went your route: I asked a friend whose taste I respect to recommend a furniture store, and she said "Jennifer Convertibles," which I agreed with in principle because said chair was from there and had lasted since '91, and the couch's predecessor was from there and had lasted 13 years (with the ottoman, it was a reasonable $1700 in 1991 bux).
Problem is, Jennifer didn't make the kind of leather (which we decided we wanted) furniture we wanted. So what to do?
Enter Advertising. Raymour & Flanagan, which I'd never heard of before two years or so ago, blankets my TV with ads. There's one over in Union Square, and two weeks ago, there was an ad on TV about a sale. So we went over, and long story short, have a new leather sofa, chair and ottoman that we like for a reasonable price. Without advertising, we'd never have gotten there, and the baby would still be eating upholstery foam.
-- 22:05, 8 February 2010 (GMT)
... and the baby would still be eating upholstery foam.
Well, we can't have that!
-- 22:48, 8 February 2010 (GMT)
During the hockey game there was an ad for a free shoulder pain seminar at a local orthopedic clinic. They are on T's insurance. He is going to go if he's awake and not hip-deep in work. This could be an hour of his time wasted or it could be the start of something life-changing. More likely it will be something in between.
That is, however, the main positive ad example I can come up with right now, and it surprised us greatly.
-- 23:04, 8 February 2010 (GMT)
Having an unlisted land line (I still have a land line!) has prevented 99% of unwanted cold calls, except for the ones from entities with whom I have dealings, wanting to up my participation, etc. The idea of people sitting in a cubicle farm, calling and calling and reading from scripts for who knows how many hours a day makes my blood run cold. I'd rather live in an appliance box under an overpass than have to make a living that way. Poor schlubs. I'm pretty civil with them when they call, because, much as I hate 'em, they're just doing their jobs. *shudder!*
TV ads, on the other hand, are a whole nuther thing. I actually LIKE most ads and I have a great deal of respect for the clever minds of Madison Ave. who come up with them, choose the music, all of that. And I may be among the few, but I recognize the value of free TV (except for the monthly DirecTV charge). Although I admit to fast-forwarding through ads I've seen before, I generally watch them all at least once. I happen to love the gecko; I think he's damned clever. I'd love to be the lucky soul who first suggested that campaign. Can't seem to warm up to the money with the googly eyes, though. And you know I love Flo from Progressive. You can't teach somebody those facial expressions and gestures and intonations. She's a natural.
My point is, you may well be right, television will no doubt evolve into demand only, like HBO. But I'm doing my part to stave that off just as long as I can. I don't just watch the ads, I also try many of the products. I keep hoping there are others out there like me.
I won't however, even browse through an issue of Time or Newsweek, anymore. They've gone too far, in an effort to keep from dying. Last time I took the time to count them, there were 75 pages of ads in the issue, with only 22 pages of actual content. Ridiculous. But their content, if I care to see it, is available online, so I'm not missing anything. Whether the internet remains "free" is another story. I don't think I have much control over it one way or the other, so I just watch and wait. You've already decried the fact that The Economist is no longer available for you to quote from at will. Could be the eventual course of things.
I can't worry about it. There are too many things over which I do have a modicum of control that occupy my exasperation time. I pretty much gave up pondering the questions with no answers way back in philosophy class in college. I happen to think those sturdy places you referred to in your previous post are subjective. But I digress.
-- 04:06, 9 February 2010 (GMT)
Nonelvis:
I do not want to be told about new products. (By marketers. I am reasonably tolerant of being told about them by my friends.)
You do realize that the vast majority of people on Twitter are in marketing? And that they depend on the nature of Twitter to help push their products? Which it does, because people RT contest info, etc., and thus your friends end up marketing to you anyway.
-- 20:51, 8 February 2010 (GMT)