Eccentric Flower talk:201001/Bayonetta

Iain:

I'm impressed. Bayonetta has a Magical Cleavage Window ... that doesn't actually show any cleavage. Weird. (What is that thing in her cleavage window, anyway?)

(No, I have nothing of any substance to add.)

-- 16:36, 7 January 2010 (GMT)

Jayran:

The Big Fish comment caught my eye because J. (my son)--the only gamer in this household at the ripe old age of four and a half--is a huge fan of the Hidden Object games (asked for one for Christmas, even). Some of his [male]classmates play what I guess are precursors to the combat games (I say guess, again because I really know very, very little about computer games other than my Scrabble and Chess one!) and it's very clear he's not interested in those. They're very clear they're not interested in the Big Fish games. It'll be interesting to see how or if his interest varies, as he grows older, and whether that's due to peer pressure or not. Also, all I can say is computer games are the reason he reads fluently, can spell better than most grownups, and has a vocabulary that includes the words rapier and hookah (always good words to know!). Works for me.

-- 17:37, 7 January 2010 (GMT)

Joy:

I have next to zero interest in computer games, but your generalizations do fit me. If I wanted to play, I sure as hell would get bothered by some of these aspects of the female characters. And I also sure as hell would never let my kids play them (I'm actually pretty sure we are going to be a video/computer-game free household, but since I lost the Tivo war to guppy recently, I guess I should be less sure of that statement as well).

Anyway, what is funny is I really kind of hate first-person shooter, just blast away kill kill kill games (noting I've only tried a couple of them, names of which I cannot remember) and would probably want some more social aspects were I to play, but I'm exactly the opposite, and I guess more like a boy, when it comes to porn. Story? What the hell is the point of a story? Get on with the fucking!

-- 17:58, 7 January 2010 (GMT)

Columbina:

I think it's interesting that you'd characterize that as an (at least somewhat) typically male expectation of porn. I would have, too, unequivocally, about fifteen years ago. Since then, I have steadily been revising my theories each year. I'm still willing to go with it as a shaky starting point, just like most of the generalizations in the entry above ... but the more I hear of people's responses/criticisms of various smut, the more I am coming to believe that the PWP response (Plot? What Plot?) to smut is by no means strongly gender-linked.

In short, you're in good company there.

-- 18:51, 7 January 2010 (GMT)

Thomas:

I see that the discussion has moved from games to porn.

I would suggest that part of the PWP response can also appear because in non-porn the reader can forgive the writer if the plot line deviates from what the reader would prefer or consider rational.

Porn is not about forgiving and supporting fledgling writers, though. In porn the needs and wants are more exact and often only the consumer can provide what they need in plot (even if the more functional parts are usable even if created by less mastery hand. Wasn't this how some artists of old used to paint also - the students doing the backgrounds and crude grunt work, the master only giving details, finish and signing the piece?)

-- 19:07, 7 January 2010 (GMT)

Columbina:

We can have conversation about games AND porn! Or even porn games - of which several examples have been tried, most of them tragically unsuccessful.

The best pornographic game I ever saw - which is faint praise, you understand - came out about the time games like Myst and The Seventh Guest were leading the way in integrating video cut scenes with gameplay. It was called Latex and it was done by/used the work of director Michael Ninn. The game had a very nice, creepy Stepford Wives vibe, but in the parts where there was story, you didn't want the story interrupted by a porn scene, and in the parts where the porn was good, the story ended up getting neglected. And that's one of the good examples, from a guy who is as close to "brilliant auteur" the porn world's produced in thirty years, who has embraced both novel storylines and new technology. If he couldn't pull it off, I lack hope. Not that this has stopped me from plotting a few seriously R-rated games ....

-- 19:17, 7 January 2010 (GMT)

Mel:

You're forgetting about necromancers in GW. I thought that one set of armor mine had was the most outrageous of all. (And I can't say that it really bothered me.)

Also: ages 20 to 40? Thanks for leaving me out! And I don't think I'm nearly the oldest person playing any of the games we've played.

Col and I have had the conversation before about R- or X-rated games: I would totally play one, if it was a good one. I know by cutting out the 10-17 year-olds, it makes the economics of the thing iffy, but there are enough grown-ups playing games nowadays that I don't see why a well-done one wouldn't have a chance.

-- 20:29, 7 January 2010 (GMT)

Columbina:

I wasn't leaving you out, but the over-40 demographic (which, I might remind you, I belong to) is still, as I understand it, not a very significant segment of the habitual game-players and game-buyers. Those seem to mostly break down into the 10-20 set and the 20-40 set. If someone knows better than that, correct me.

-- 20:37, 7 January 2010 (GMT)

ProfRobert:

I just want you to know that I actually read all of this, even though my interest in video games was completely sated by Adventure on the Wellesley College mainframe in 1984 and Sub Battle on my 1986 Mac Plus.

-- 20:43, 7 January 2010 (GMT)

Columbina:

Do you ever feel like everyone else is in a cult of which you are not a member?

-- 21:29, 7 January 2010 (GMT)

Joy:

ProfRobert, mine was satisfied by Frogger on a Commodore 64 (on a cassette tape!) in 1983/4, and Crystal Quest on a Mac II (?) in 1990. I guess you win! (God, I loved Crystal Quest. But I had to stop playing when I would try to go to sleep, and right as I closed my eyes the screen would appear with everything closing in on me).

-- 21:46, 7 January 2010 (GMT)

Bunny42:

My online gaming is limited to Dice Wars. As for not belonging to a cult, perhaps. But I don't believe as many people play online games as you do. I know many do, but I believe many more do not. Unless, of course, the cult to which you refer comprises all of your friends and online acquaintances? In which case, Robert and I must be the only ones on the outside looking in.

Does online Scrabble count? Eh, I didn't think so.

-- 22:03, 7 January 2010 (GMT)

ProfRobert:

I would never join a cult that would have someone like me as a member.

Also, I suppose in the spirit of full disclosure, I do on rare occasions still play Solitaire, Black Jack, Minesweeper and Pinball on my computer, but I don't think that's really quite what people mean when they discuss video games.

-- 22:38, 7 January 2010 (GMT)

Bunny42:

I had to stop Minesweeper. I'd get so hyper, I could feel the palpitations. Nowadays, I play Hearts and Spider Solitaire, but I'm sure they don't qualify as online gaming. Just pure, simple timewasters, which is why I mostly stay away from them.

-- 00:55, 8 January 2010 (GMT)

Settsimaksimin:

Bayonetta makes me giggle because she looks like the result of someone stuffing as many things as possible into the Cliche Blender.

the meathead with the review almost exactly matches the imaginary person in my head that i blame for the wave of grey/brown gore-drenched shooters drowning out games like Okami, Psychonauts, and Beyond Good And Evil.

there are too many things i want to say about this topic, but i can't put off work any longer!

-- 18:27, 8 January 2010 (GMT)