Eccentric Flower:201009/The Overrated Voice
From Eccentric Flower
«September 2010 «Eccentric Flower
The Overrated Voice
1. I stumbled today across Danny O'Brien's comments on a podcast interview with himself and Dave Green about the late lamented NTK. Unfortunately, O'Brien's comments mostly amounted to "go listen to the podcast." I'm sure the interview is fascinating and, since I think NTK was brilliant and would love to hear more about the circumstances that led to its creation, I'm sorry I won't get to hear it. But the fact remains that it is a podcast of the spoken word, so it just ain't gonna happen.
Coincidentally, at the same time that I was following this link, Stephen Fry was flooding his Twitter feed with the answers to his in-Twitter interview. Since I didn't follow the interviewer's Twitter account, I only saw the answers, not the questions, some of which I read and were interesting, some of which I skipped.
The point here is that there are plenty of people who would find Fry's fifty-some tweets in the space of about a half hour far more obnoxious than listening to a podcast for the same half hour. I won't actually say those people are wrong, because de gustibus and all that, but I will say that I do not quite comprehend the alien premises from which they are ratiocinating.
2. I was informed yesterday evening about a death in the family (no, no, no one you need to be concerned about; an uncle I have never mentioned here), and for various reasons I've decided that I had probably better go down for the funeral. The funeral has not been scheduled yet. Now, with anyone else of my acquaintance I would leave an private electronic message of some form saying, "Please let me know as soon as you know when the funeral will be, because I've decided I'm coming and I need to make travel plans at the earliest time I possibly can," and they would read it and would later send me an email with the information and I could act accordingly.
But because the person I must ask about this is my mother, I will have to speak to her over the telephone, and it will be a difficult communication, and not just because this is a hard and emotionally fragile time for her. For example, there will be a discussion about my attendance. The primary reason I haven't asked my mother, "Do you want me to attend the funeral?" is that I know I can't get an honest answer from her (she'll tell me no even if the answer is yes), which is why I've had to make a unilateral decision to attend - and I don't particularly want to have that argument, nor does she need to have that argument at this time. She has enough to think about as is.
3. I just got out of a meeting where I'm reasonably sure I looked like a gibbering idiot - as I tend to do in meetings. I am consoled by the fact that my boss knows I'm not a gibbering idiot, but that doesn't help the fact that the two visitors probably came away thinking, "THAT is what they have for a developer? Those poor people."
Because, as I've said before and will say again: I do not talk well. Thoughts which I can make precise and usually well-organized (if not always succinct) on paper come out as a huge mess of dead ends and false starts when I actually have to discuss them verbally. Especially in technical discussions, where I tend to focus on direct facts of implementation (what do I have to do, where do I have to do it) and someone else is focusing on high-end details of architecture or design I don't give a rat's ass about (e.g. I don't have to know how it works if I'm not the person writing it, I just have to know what to put in my own code to cooperate with it), it always goes badly for me, and I always end up sounding like I don't understand either what they or I am talking about.
4. I remember when I first heard a recording of my voice. It was a recording I had made. This was when I learned, to my great shock, that my voice doesn't sound to other people the way it sounds to me when I am speaking. I've heard my recorded voice several times over the years since then and it never gets less heartbreaking.
Our voices resonate inside our heads when we talk and it alters their shapes. I have a deeper, steadier, less whiny, less nasal voice to myself than I do to you. I'm sorry to expose it to you, so I try not to talk unless I have to, and I'm sorry for me, so I try not to ever let my voice be recorded lest I one day inadvertently get exposed to it and have to face another of those shocks.
Unfortunately I do have the nerd tendency to go onto long spiels about a topic I'm interested in, whether the audience wants it or not, and though I've tried to eradicate this technique by force, I have never entirely succeeded. If I do ever subject you to one of those spiels, I apologize, and I want you to know I always feel very guilty about it afterward once I realize what I've done.
5. Several times in recent months Mel and I have pushed the limits of what can be done with written chat under high-performance conditions in an online game. There have been a number of times when I literally could not type "stop!" fast enough to keep her from walking into a trap or bad situation which I knew was there and she didn't. We have hesitantly discussed voice chat once or twice. It's not like it's anything particularly novel; in fact it is the norm. There are many guilds/groups/teams which simply won't let you do quests with them if you don't have voice chat, period, the end.
I have always dismissed these people as People Who Won't Read or who can't type fast enough, people whom usually I treat with utter contempt since I read faster than I hear and type faster than I talk, and don't understand why everyone else can't do it too.
But even I am forced to admit that when one is playing with someone who doesn't read chat as fast as I do, or is often more distracted by non-game things than I am, or who in general is not giving the game the obssessive control-freak total ADHD focus that I give it when I'm playing, sometimes you need the ability to be able to holler "STOP" or "NO, GO LEFT" or "NOW" in a way that not only has speed but also has the emphasis and distractiveness of audio. (Is "distractiveness" really a word, Sam? It is now, Max.)
However, it is not likely to happen. For one thing, I often listen to music when playing online, and I don't want to lose that. For another thing, I feel that voice communications are One Of The Things The Internet Is Not For and a bad use of bandwidth, and these games have high connectivity needs as is. I don't need the extra load on the pipeline while I'm playing. For a third thing (and this may be the main thing) talking aloud to my computer, even if I'm really talking aloud to a person somewhere else, makes me feel ridiculous. And with a game I wouldn't just be talking aloud; I'd be shouting aloud and so forth. No. Not even if there were no witnesses.
6. Written text is a random-access medium. That is, you do not have to start at the beginning and go through all the words in sequence. You can go arbitrarily to any point in the text and resume there. You can skim. You can peek at the end of the book and see how it comes out. I'm not saying these are good habits, but they are possible and sometimes necessary.
The spoken word, whether live or via recording, is sequential-access. You cannot skip ahead in any controlled fashion. You can fast-forward or rewind recorded audio, of course, but unless you have known time notations, you have no idea where you're going when you jump. And if the audio is happening live, you're stuck with it.
Written text is easier to resume when interrupted. When you find your place, you invisibly scan the preceding material for context; it gives you a sort of warm-up as you restart the narrative. With audio, if you pause it and come back an hour later, you'll be lucky if you can remember what the speaker was talking about, let alone what the first half of the interrupted sentence was. Or, if it's live audio, forget it; if you don't give it your undivided attention, it's gone. If you step out of the room, you missed something and you're not getting it back.
Written text is more portable, more easily viewed, more easily scanned/searched for context, and does not disrupt the environment of the people around you when you view it. Written text is superior to audio text in all respects but one, and unless you are a person with a truly beautiful or expressive voice (which is damned few of us, sadly), the intonation aspect is one I'll gladly sacrifice in exchange for the other benefits the written word offers.
7. The majority of the people in the world seem to do the math the other way around - at least how else do you explain the ascendancy of radio and television over books, of podcasts and YouTube clips over written interviews and web pages?
Oh, sure, there are things you can't do or show in a written medium - you can't have a transcript of a Warner Brothers cartoon, for example. There's music, for which there must always forever be an exception (sure, you can write music, but it misses all the fun; music is designed to be performed, not read). There's verbal comedy (that Monty Python skit I quoted a few entries back is meant to be heard and not read, because Cleese's voice is an important part of the humor). Plenty of things you must hear or watch in the world.
But, just for example, I have never yet seen a podcast or YouTube interview which couldn't have been replaced with a transcript of the same interview without losing any value - to me. Interviewers and interviewees might like to think that their voice and mannerisms and other visual/verbal information are crucial enough to the interview that it doesn't stand without them. My experience has been that they are almost always wrong.
8. I'd like to see chat software where three or four people could type at high speed simultaneously, each stream of type running down its own separate column of the screen. Furthermore there would be a constant scrolloff as time passed - text would move upscreen as the clock ticked, so eventually it would fall off the top of the screen whether you were actually typing new material or not. This way you could see when someone was pausing because there would be an equivalent blank space in the screen. Of course you'd need to have the ability to scroll back, so you could catch up with what had been said even if you'd stepped away for five minutes. Otherwise you'd just be replicating one of the faults of verbal conversation.
I would love this software. I suspect most of my friends would hate it passionately. I know at least one whom it would make absolutely crazy. I can hear her now, saying to me, "So you expect me to keep up with what's being displayed in four concurrent columns of text in real time? Are you insane?"
Not only am I not insane, I would be able to do something else, like play a game or listen to music, while keeping up with it - unlike verbal conversations which demand I give them my full attention. To me it would be a concise, compact, way of getting all the best parts of a conversation without any of the limitations and frustrations of verbal communication. The only sacrifice I concede one would be making is the screen real estate it would demand. (I'd have to play the game on another computer.)
I realize that to many or most of you, the paragraph above is the incomprehensible ranting of a dangerous lunatic. I wish I could understand this gap. I've known for years it exists, but I never have been able to figure out why. I know some of you can read fast. I know some of you can type fast. What I don't know is why you insist on being more comfortable with conversations held in spoken words, whereas I think spoken conversations are a badly-flawed format that we have the technology to move beyond, except you stubborn people won't do it.
9. Face-to-face interpersonal contact, actually being in the same room with other real live humans, is a vital part of one's existence. I agree. But I don't feel that fact is strongly connected to any of the discussion above.
Retaining your numbering:
2. I'm sure this is a stupid question for reasons unknown to me, but what about calling your sister? Isn't she still living in your mother's town, and wouldn't she know those details?
4. You have a really good voice (and Readers who have never spoken to C, I am telling you the truth, just like about he's a terrific conversationalist in person). You have just enough "southern" in it to make it a bit musical, but so much of it that makes you sound like Foghorn Leghorn or someone with three teeth and a banjo.
5. Is there a "mute" feature you could use? That is, keep the voice stuff on mute, but jam a finger on the off button to yell "look out"?
7. A picture's worth 1000 words.
-- 18:34, 14 September 2010 (BST)
As someone who has audio processing issues and finds the phone and voice chat particularly horrible for understanding what people are saying, and who reads incredibly fast and types incredibly fast...
I still like voice chat in cooperative games, because if I am playing a game my fingers are busy controlling my character, dammit. If I take the three seconds it will take to type what I want to type to you when it's actually critical, not only is it likely that you may not notice it in time, but I will likely die because I took my fingers away from the controls for that long.
Otherwise, I'm pretty much with you. I vastly, vastly prefer written communication most of the time.
-- 18:51, 14 September 2010 (BST)
Robert: For reasons not germane here, we can work under the assumption that my sister is not a useful source of information at this time.
-- 19:45, 14 September 2010 (BST)
Chip and I both volunteer for our neighborhood assn, and for both of us, the excessive phone time required is one of the biggest pains of the work. We have finally come up with a whole rant about how "It's insulting to assume that older people don't use the internet," because we are continually fighting with a few people (who would fight about anything really) that believe all our communications must be done by phone or in person or in actual print ... email and web sites are "useless." Drives me up the wall.
I know there are some things I have procrastinated on shamelessly because they involve picking up a telephone. We can't set a date to meet using email? Really? Well, I'll call you ... sometime.
I tried working with my sister directly on getting funeral info, etc. when my grandfather died but I think that even though my mom was busy and upset, she really wanted me to talk to her about it. On the phone. Not the most efficient thing, but at times like this, efficiency is not really on people's minds.
I hate my voice, which is why I fought doing podcasts for so long. These days I am merely resigned. I hardly ever listen to other people's podcasts, though. I do think I've done some interviews that would have been better on video than transcribed ... but that's because of the visual aspect ... like Jonah Hill sketching odd things the whole time.
-- 19:46, 14 September 2010 (BST)
Robert, also: Yes, most voice chat in games has a so-called "push to talk" feature, but it strikes me that getting a sudden "look out!" when there had been no prior conversation would just about give someone heart failure.
Peebles: Haven't heard of that.
-- 19:59, 14 September 2010 (BST)
And a screaming monster swinging a battle axe jumping out at you from behind a rock wouldn't? If one can handle the surprises video games throw out, I'd be surprised if one couldn't handle a sudden voice warning.
-- 20:16, 14 September 2010 (BST)
Strangely, no. Hard to explain if you don't play them, but an in-context surprise is less likely to be disruptive than an out-of-context different-part-of-the-universe surprise. It's not just the sudden occurrence, it's the jump from in-game events to real-world ones that would startle. Or at least it sure would startle ME.
(Shorter version: In-game you expect things to jump out at you with an axe.)
-- 21:15, 14 September 2010 (BST)
1. I would find both equally obnoxious. No, this is not true. There is an outside chance I would read the tweets, mumbling and swearing the whole time, whereas if I follow a link to something someone has labeled an interview and then discover that it is a video or sound feed, I say, "Well, crap, that sounded interesting," and close the window.
One of the main functions of a journalist in an interview is to edit the subject's responses into *prose*. This is a *virtue*. A: Did you ___? B: Yes, in March. A: How so? B: Well, the blah blah blah. A: Did that work well? B: Sort of. It worked really well in the following ways x at length, y at more length, and z that is really interesting. But then q that we didn't think of went really badly, and here is the part you wanted to hear about in the first place, only I am not a professional interview subject, I am a professional something you're actually interested in, so I didn't say that first. A: Right. Interesting follow-up question here!
What should come out is: Did you _____? Yes, in March. The blah, blah, blah. It worked really well in the following ways x at length, y at more length, and z that is really interesting. But then q that we didn't think of went really badly, and here is the part you wanted to hear about in the first place, only I am not a professional interview subject, I am a professional something you're actually interested in, so I didn't say that first. Interesting follow-up question here!
That is how this works. Or how it's supposed to work. And in sound interviews and tweets, not so much. Because the other monkeys have no taste, apparently.
-- 21:34, 14 September 2010 (BST)
Mrissa: One of the interesting side effects of widespread blogging by people who aren't trained in journalism has been the decline of the well-written interview. (Or so I think.) I will take all of the half-sentences that don't make sense out of an interview transcript, as well as the aural twitches and so forth. Sometimes this means I edit a sentence. Sometimes this means I move lines from the end of the interview to the beginning. And of course I cut it down to size.
I had an argument with a blogger who felt that this is LYING. If you don't reproduce a transcript faithfully, you are being unethical and wrong. And judging from the increasing number of overly wordy transcript-style interviews I read, he's not the only one.
I keep wanting to write up my interviews in a conversational style, not in transcript style, but certain editors disapprove. And admittedly so many of the conversational-style interviews I read put style above substance and seem to be often more about the interviewer than I'd like. Still, it's easier to read that way. I think.
[Damn, this is turning into Those Ignorant Kids Are Ruining The Art of Writing. I had better stop now.]
-- 21:48, 14 September 2010 (BST)
Mel:
Re 5: I feel compelled to state for the record that the problem is not that I don't read fast enough; the problem is that I don't constantly look at the chat box in the bottom corner, the way that Col seems to. I never have figured out the trick to looking everywhere at once, or at least it feels to me like that's what he's doing. I don't know if this is just because he's been playing these games a lot longer than I have, or what, but I can't do it. (Also, for some reason, things typed in the chat box in DDO take longer to register with me. I don't know what it is, and in fact we have had many long conversations about the fact that I find DDO a more difficult game to play in practically every way. We have never come to a conclusion about why.)
Re 4: I haven't heard you talk in several years now, but I don't recall that I found your voice at all unpleasant, Col. But I am the same way, really - when I hear my voice on tape, all I can hear is my flat Texas drawl. (Oddly, other people have told me I don't have much of an accent.)
-- 02:34, 15 September 2010 (BST)
Mel:
Grr, I hate that I can't edit my comment. (I know there are reasons for that, but still.)
-- 02:36, 15 September 2010 (BST)
You can absolutely edit your comment. Others here do it semi-often. You just have to make sure that first you are on the talk page and not the main entry page. Use the tab at the top that says "discussion." Then, when you're there ("discussion" will be in boldface), use the "edit" tab.
Two warnings:
1) Please edit just the text of your entry and not the surrounding div tags or other markup, and
2) Don't mess with anyone else's comments (not that you would). MediaWiki keeps a full history of all the edits to each page, so I see and know all. Muahahaha.
-- 03:00, 15 September 2010 (BST)
3. I suspect I know what the response will be, but I'm compelled (as a part of the Lab's club) to suggest something like Toastmasters. For most people, there really is no substitute for practice when it comes to group speaking, either prepared or extemporaneous.
5. Voice is very low bandwidth. It barely registers vs. the primary data requirements of the games.
-- 03:33, 15 September 2010 (BST)
Mel:
Voice may be very low bandwidth, but if Col ever agrees to try it I will fall over in shock. (I would have to buy a microphone, myself, so I'm not necessarily in a hurry to try it, either.)
Comment above duly edited. I had edited some before but I had (typically, for me) forgotten how I did it.
-- 04:20, 15 September 2010 (BST)
Printed interviews and recorded interviews both have their virtues. Interviews on This American Life have actually moved me to tears a number of times, and I have a hard time imagining a printed interview doing that. There's a lot of power in hearing the emotion in somebody's voice.
But while I'll gladly listen to an interview on the radio or watch one on TV, I'm much less likely to do so online. There's something about the online experience that makes me (and apparently many other people) very restless. I don't know this is so, but a 3-minute video clip can feel too long and a 4-page article feels like it goes on forever.
The streaming chat software you describe sounds a lot like certain chat rooms I visited in 2001 or so. I sure don't miss them.
-- 20:39, 15 September 2010 (BST)

Peebles:
So, ytalk?
-- 18:32, 14 September 2010 (BST)