Eccentric Flower:201004/Igry
From Eccentric Flower
Igry (And Other Chestnuts)
I don't really care for puzzles, even though I am sometimes very good at doing them, because they don't strike me as time well spent. But over the years I have collected a wide variety of word-riddles and other tired old puzzles, and involuntarily committed them to memory, and ....
Immediately we run into the common-knowledge issue. As you know, Bob, I suffer from a perpetual fallacy where I assume that, if I know it, everyone else knows it. As I noted on Twitter today, in my defense:
This was a reflection on the fact that I posted in a particular forum a few word games which strike me as tired old chestnuts, and which I could never get away with in my personal social circle because they are tired chestnuts to everyone else there as well. But to these people, they were new. And there's always someone for whom they're new, and that's kinda delightful.
Here's what I asked. I would be interested to hear, just for statistical purposes, which of these you have heard a thousand times, and which are new to you:
Because the average intelligence level on the forums where I posted this appears to be approximately that of a gerbil (judging from the spelling, grammar, content level, and composition of the average post, and yes, I am a mean bitch, and yes, I do expect that you will be judged on presentation, and yes, I do think that you have an obligation to write grammatically even if you're a sixth-grader, so let's just take all that as read), I did not expect many answers.
To my great surprise, the whole list except #6 was cracked within an hour of my posting it by two people - both of whom turn out to be intelligent, articulate people capable of composing a sentence. I hadn't realized they existed. So, here's today's bombshell: Posting silly-ass word games can sometimes be Intelligent People Bait. Intelligent people are often reluctant to display intelligence, particularly when they're in an online room full of morons. This draws them out of concealment (so that we can all be ridiculed and ostracized together. Solidarity!)
In particular someone got #5 immediately, which usually is one of the hardest ones to crack. I had attempted to arrange them roughly in order of increasing difficulty. On the other hand, these are really "aha" puzzles and everyone's brain works differently, so one never knows. Whereas #1, whose answer has been known to me since I was five, took them quite a bit longer. Go figure.
Of course they could be cheating - and it's debatable whether "cheating" is even accurate. You may not realize this (and why would you?) but the internet has become the nemesis of puzzle-creation. It's simply too easy to get answers. Dan Lyke came up with so many answers so fast for #5 that he felt the whole thing was beneath contempt. He added
I hadn't even known that sort of wordmongering had a name! I intuited from his tone that he would be perfectly happy to make trivia obsolete, and I teased him about cheating, and he replied
and I don't say he doesn't have a point. But now you know: There are people in the world who find puzzles even more pointless than I do.
The fact of the matter is, while I don't really care for pencil puzzles except as a time-killer (because I know I can solve them with enough application of brain and time, but the process is not especially interesting to me), I do like an occasional solve-this-riddle puzzle like the above, and I like them even more when I can't figure out the answer, because I like the slap-your-forehead moment when you are told. Other people find them very frustrating for the same reason; they feel it's a rigged game designed to make them look and feel stupid. It's true that with many of these (unless you cheat like Dan did), it's extremely unlikely you will ever get the answer on your own, and that most of the people who know the answer know because they were told it.
On the other hand, it is possible occasionally to do some exhaustive thinking and eventually solve it on your own; the puzzles are fair. It's not like the famous -gry puzzle - again, "famous" is used semi-ironically; in my circle of weirdos you can say, "the -gry puzzle" and they'll all know what you mean without further explanation; all the normal people in the world go "huh"?
[What, you've never heard of it? You're probably better off for it. But, in case you are feeling masochistic, my favorite phrasing of it is like this: Name three common English words which end in the letters -gry. Answer below with all the other answers.]
The thing is, I think I would rather assume that my peers are my peers, rather than face evidence that they aren't - the latter depresses me when I encounter it. That means assuming that my peers are pretty intelligent (indeed, more intelligent than I am; I tend to regard myself as kinda slow, actually)*, and that they accumulate all sorts of random cruft and trivia at all times whether they want to or not, and so their reaction to most of these puzzles, like mine, is, "Oh, yeah, that's a good one," like you do to a pleasant-enough joke that you've heard before many times.
But assuming such a thing means you don't ever get the joy of telling that joke again. So once in a while it's nice to find someone who hasn't heard that joke, so you can get it out of your system for a change.
* Stop laughing, I'm quite serious. The thing is, while my information retention is very good - too good, I wish I wouldn't pick up so much lint and clutter - when it comes to actually learning how to do new things, it takes many beatings over the head for it to penetrate my thick skull. Being an ace at "Jeopardy!" due to retained factoids, while something I excel at, does not strike me as a useful skill ... and the process by which that factoid was thrown onto my mental rubbish pile and never discarded does not strike me as learning. Genuine learning, when I have to do it, is a very slow and painful process. Trust me on this.
Answers follow, so if you're still pondering the questions above, read no further.
1. Bookkeeper (and its variants, e.g. bookkeeping). Strangely, my whole life I have been assuming that this was merely the most common answer of several, when in fact it may be the only legitimate one:
2. The one most commonly used is facetious(ly). The other three I can bring to mind are abstemious(ly), arterious(ly), and arsenious(ly) - and you can see that we're really reaching by the time we get to that last one. I am one up on AskOxford, which gives some even more obscure scientific terms, but apparently either forgot arterious (pertaining to the arteries) or doesn't consider it a real word.
3. One person on the forums I mentioned came up with onomatopoeia, which impressed me greatly and made me aware that the Non-Idiots Were Coming Out Of Hiding. Because that ain't a common word except in certain very rarefied universes. The word I had in mind was queue. I added:
The views of AskOxford on this matter are rather unorthodox:
I would just like to say that, personally, I have not only never heard or used "Rousseauian" in spoken conversation, I have never seen it anywhere in written usage before today, and thus we conclude that someone at AskOxford needs to get out more.
4. Awkward. A variation on this turned up on "Jeopardy!" recently and stumped the contestants.
5. The one I had in mind was polish. Dan Lyke suggests nice, job, and herb (he notes that one may be subject to regionalisms). I still want to know if the forum guy who got this immediately had heard it before.
6. There are two answers. One is technically French, but wanders into English occasionally. It is entente. The other is quite normal, and you should take another crack at it before I give you the answer.
As for the -gry puzzle, the reason it annoys wordies is that it doesn't have a proper answer. Everyone gets angry and hungry immediately (you did get those immediately, right?) and then loses their mind trying to find a third. All third choices are obscure and/or archaic.
But there is a silver lining to this puzzle, in that it led to the creation of a very useful word, the one which is the title of the entry. I will let Francis explain; he was there, and he tells it better than I do.
That, I think, is the real merit of these silly-ass riddles; that in some people (me, as a child, for example) it leads them to wander the corridors of language in search of other Unusual Artifacts, and eventually they become one of the peculiar, obstinately intelligent, verbose, high-vocabulary humans I so adore.
Alfalfa.
Onomatopoeia is too a common word! My 7-year-old godson knows it, and he's hardly had a chance to read anything yet.
-- 22:00, 30 April 2010 (BST)
I think it is not too early, based on the weight of accumulated evidence to date, to presume that your godson is One Of Us.
-- 22:31, 30 April 2010 (BST)
So, you're saying alfalfa is a common word to your entourage? I don't think I ever would have come up with it. I really don't use it much...
I knew #1, of course. Item #2 I figured would end in tious, but didn't spend much time on it before moving on. Same with #3 and #4. Awkward made me slap my forehead. My answer for #5 was august.
Alfalfa. Really.
I found many of the Unusual Artifacts very interesting. Medial capitals, f'rinstance. And I don't know that I ever would have wondered about the opposite of uxorious. But that's just me. If I'd absolutely had to find a term, it might have been co-dependent. (Eeeep!)
I envy those who are creative and witty, of whom I don't consider myself to be one. But I don't have to be able to create a masterpiece in order to appreciate one. I sit in awe of a clever turn of phrase or an unusual, yet exact, description. (Tom Robbins comes to mind.)
Which is why I follow this journal. A cat can look at a king, I say.
-- 23:29, 30 April 2010 (BST)
When it comes to these type of puzzles, I tend to cheat, and for word related puzzles, I don't necessarily have to use the Internet.
1---this be a bit tedious to check for, but not horribly so. I might have to think about how to best find the answer using a program (my thought: scan through /usr/share/dict/words, sorting the letters in each word and looking for pairs of letters)
2---a long but easy regular expression through /usr/share/dict/words will do for this one. Heck, this technique can be used for quite a few in this list. One word I found not mentioned here: bacterious.
3---same approach as above. I got "sequoia" as one result (and lots of -oeia results).
4---"Awkward" popped right out, but so did "hawkweed" (grep is your friend).
5---I knew this one immediately, but this is the only one that can't be easily cheated by a computer.
6---Not as easy as just using grep, but grep (to pull out all seven letter words) and a simple program to compare the proper letters would work and be a few seconds to write. In doing so, I found "alfalfa", "entente", "sarsars" and "tzitzit".
Bunny is sitting next to me, rolling her eyes and proclaiming I'm cheating, but what does this prove? Most of these puzzles here are of the "let me go through my vocabulary looking for matches" type and the computer can do this faster than I can.
I don't think I'm less intelligent than others here, but language puzzles aren't my thing---I enjoy actual physical puzzles ("these four pieces form a pyramid---put them together to do so" and that ilk); I also like writing programs.
-- 02:22, 1 May 2010 (BST)
It might be tricky to associate a quick correct answer to these sorts of questions with intelligence, whatever intelligence is. Instead, I liken the ease or difficulty of these particular question/answer games to the liklihood of being exposed to a particular bacteria or something. Depending on whether the factoid/joke/virus/habit already in your environment, you could know it before you can walk, or you might never come across it. I'm sure there's a 5 year-old-child around who can spout off the titles of the Apocrypha because that's what's in her environment.
For the uninitiated, the wordsmith questions themselves are hardly ones you'd think of in normal usage, and the answers are of the "aha"-type which might only indicate the presence or absence of non-critical "wiring" in the brain. The person who happens to be a wordsmith might notice patterns like this unprompted, anyway.
If such questions offer you good nonthugbait, then good luck to ya.
Having a brain that acts like a lint trap is hardly an indicator for intelligence, however corelative it might be, however useful it might be. Even If there were a litmus test for intelligence, I don't think that giving correct answers the "aha"-type questions is useful in any way. Wordsmithing questions might very well be a litmus-test for people you'd enjoy talking with, however.
-- 08:08, 1 May 2010 (BST)
Igry made me think of the movie "Igby Goes Down." The plot summary on IMDb, which I submit without comment, is "A young man's peculiar upbringing renders him unable to competently cope with the struggle of growing up."
-- 19:19, 1 May 2010 (BST)

DanLyke:
I think by now we can agree that "-gry" has entered the language as its own word, the meaning of which is "the third most used word in English that ends in 'gry' because of that stupid puzzle question. And, yes, there are more than three. STFU already."
I'm all for brain stretching, and I'm not entirely opposed to puzzles as my fondness for the occasional Scrabble game shows (though I'm careful to distinguish myself from real Scrabble players because I can't reel off all the 2 and 3 letter words from memory), but when puzzles become a public sport they fall into the same category as body building:
Such things are fine if that's your hobby, and it's great when they trigger some inquisitiveness in a child that leads to more broadly applicable knowledge, but if you use 'em to start judging and sizing up other people then... well... we all know people who are buff, or beyond buff, who are fun to hang out with, and we've definitely seen the obnoxious testosterone crazed gym rats.
Nerds who get off on trivia without realizing that we are a tool-using species feel like the latter to me.
Which, I suppose, is why I've never bothered to join Mensa.
-- 20:42, 30 April 2010 (BST)